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Public health officials launched an aggressive cam...

2012-01-10T02:03:02.922-05:00

Public health officials launched an aggressive campaign, Cheap Newports, aimed at stamping out smoking in Norway. Today' s move, called " Time to quit? " (" P? tide ? slutte? "), is designed to prevent smoking' s 5,100 annual deaths. The government has set aside 19 million kroner to spend on the previously unconfirmed campaign. Norwegian Directorate of Health Director Bj?rn-Inge Larsen states he is tasked with ensuring young people today are the smoke-free generations of tomorrow, whilst motivating and helping current smokers to stop. " The campaign' s core message is that quitting smoking is good, and help is available," he says Newport Cigarettes Website.

An Australian film containing vivid scenes showing some of the consequences of smoking, including the doubled risk of strokes, will be screened on national television as part of the drive. According to health officials Newport Cigarettes, the footage, dubbed into Norwegian, has been thoroughly tested and shown to have been extremely effective in the US, Australia Marlboro Lights, and several European countries. Two additional films show the connection between smoking and lung Newport Cigarettes.

David- Really sorry I have yet to respond. The b...

2012-01-06T10:17:05.262-05:00

David-

Really sorry I have yet to respond. The busy season hit and I forgot we had an ongoing discussion!

I think, if it's cool, I'll email you later today to continue this. There's just something impersonal about "debating" on a blog!

For Jesus,

R

"So, for example, I might believe that homose...

2011-12-08T12:47:15.285-05:00

"So, for example, I might believe that homosexuality is a sin, preach that it is a sin, but not believe that the government should be in the business of regulating that sin. Is that true?"

The conclusion is correct, but that statement doesn't reflect my position. I do not believe homosexuality itself is a sin, because I do not believe homosexuality is defined only as sexual behavior with the same gender, as it is only referenced in the Bible - as I explained earlier.

As for what I would preach:

I would preach that the lusts of the flesh separate us from God (sin). I would preach that sex with anyone other than your spouse (before or during marriage) is not God's best for your life. I would preach that God wants our bodies clean and presented as sacrifice. I would preach abstinence. I would preach being equally yoked with your partner and encourage people to find a God-fearing, Holy Ghost filled partner in order to honor God with your marriage and be an example for others. I would preach that promiscuity is not of God. I believe that these same rules apply for homosexuals and heterosexuals alike.

For all of the reasons I stated in the longer post, what I would NOT preach is that homosexuality is an abomination. I would NOT preach that the references in the Bible concerning sexual behavior clearly condemn homosexuals.

Hope that helps, and I doubt anyone is reading these comments besides us anyway, so I have no problem using this as a forum! Heck, that's why I started the blog 6 years ago! Keep it coming!

Thank you, Ryan

- David

Great response, thanks. I think, mainly, I'm ...

2011-12-08T11:36:43.043-05:00

Great response, thanks. I think, mainly, I'm not looking to debate, just to make sure I know what you really think. Just one comment. (Let me know when this gets too heavy for your blog and we can chat via email or over the phone.)

You say: "The point I was trying to make in this blog is that I cannot nor should I be able to control what other people do in their pursuit of happiness. And though I personally believe what the Bible teaches, I cannot express those beliefs through anything but preaching (which is what I am not doing - just sharing my thoughts) and life example - not by using the government, politics, and the law to be party to institutionalized discrimination. Not everyone follows the Bible.”

Perhaps you don’t want to go here, but the reason I posted is because I’m trying to uncover what your “preaching” would entail. The sense I get from your comment above is that we're talking about beliefs vs. how we impose those beliefs on others. So, for example, I might believe that homosexuality is a sin, preach that it is a sin, but not believe that the government should be in the business of regulating that sin. Is that true?

But the foundational question is still, what does your "preaching" entail on the subject? That will probably clear things up for me.

Thanks again.

2. Is my position that a loving, non-sexual relat...

2011-12-07T22:09:47.261-05:00

2. Is my position that a loving, non-sexual relationship between same sex partners is permitted?

I think I answered this question in my last sentence above. But in addition, of course, we as a society already accept and the Bible already permits loving, non-sexual relationships between same sex partners - it's called regular old friendship. However, if you mean do I believe God permits homosexuals to be in a romantic relationship as long as they're not engaging in sex, I would say that is not the point I was making. Monogamous homosexual relationships are not referenced in the Bible. (if I'm wrong on this, please help)

3. What do I think is the purpose of sex? How does the Bible think of sex and specifically in marriage?

Well I think the purpose of "normal" intercourse (also a tough topic, Ryan!) is 3-fold - reproduction, pleasure, and intimacy.

As for the Bible - the Bible teaches that God has reserved sex for a husband and wife (1 Corinthians 7). However, the Bible is not specific on how to specifically practice these purposes. Even heterosexual, monogamous, married couples do things outside of these parameters. The Bible does not reference mutual masturbation, oral sex, toys/vibrators, sado-masochism, psychological domination, pain, use of foul language and several other ways couples use sex for pleasure. So therefore, should I conclude that since it's not in the Bible it's wrong to do those things? No. Just as I argue, that just because monogamous homosexual relationships are not in the Bible, it doesn't mean God is against it. The fact that Paul refers to sex for a husband and a wife is because he is writing in reference towards what most of us are - heterosexual.

I understand if my reasoning seems unorthodox. However, I have been praying for clarity on these matters for many years, and I want God to know my desire to do His will. Hopefully, by doing His will, others will be persuaded to follow.

Love you, man. Let me know if you want to talk more.

- David

Hi Ryan! Miss you man, and so sorry I won't b...

2011-12-07T22:09:39.744-05:00

Hi Ryan! Miss you man, and so sorry I won't be able to see you at this year's Christmas Concert. I and my family are well, and I pray yours is too.

You're right about this being a serious topic, and normally I stray away from theological discussions on Funkyman blog because it is such a complex area to discuss. However, I rejoice in your questions, and I'm more than happy to discuss further.

Your estimation of my position was correct except for the last sentence of that paragraph. I do believe in celebrating two people in love - but I would not state that the Bible specifically co-opts that stance in every situation. The point I was trying to make in this blog is that I cannot nor should I be able to control what other people do in their pursuit of happiness. And though I personally believe what the Bible teaches, I cannot express those beliefs through anything but preaching (which is what I am not doing - just sharing my thoughts) and life example - not by using the government, politics, and the law to be party to institutionalized discrimination. Not everyone follows the Bible.

I'll try to answer your great questions:

1. Concerning how the Bible views homosexual sex - is the Bible true on this point? Wow - talk about your serious topics!

Let me start by saying I believe the Bible is true and the Word of God. However, with that acknowledgement comes a whole lot of baggage and necessity for study. For instance, there are several instructions in Deuteronomy about marriage that we would laugh at today (i.e. if your husband dies, you have to marry his brother - 25:5). We both know that the New Testament is there to free us from the old law and these accounts remain in the Bible to teach us the history of the relationship of God with His people. Unfortunately, there is a lot of quoting from the Old Testament (especially from Leviticus) used to prove that believing anything in the Bible is ridiculous. That is not my experience. However . . .

I don't believe the Bible has a view on homosexual sex. The Bible does not ever use the term "homosexual." When it references the ideas of a man "burning in lust" for another man or "lying with a man as one lies with a woman" as sinful, it most certainly is referring to these acts in regards to heterosexuality, and yes if a heterosexual man did these things, that would be against one's nature and therefore sinful and an "abomination." It's the "against one's nature" part that gets sticky.

The truth is that there are people out there who think they're heterosexual and end up identifying as gay. There are people who thought they were gay and ended up identifying as straight. And there's everything in between. There is no verse in the Bible that refers to the "transformation" of sexual orientation or sexual orientation at all for that matter - because as I tried to write in my blog - sexual orientation is not simply about sex. It goes to the very core of a person's identity, and trying to navigate through the intricacies of a person's character and convince them they're not gay is not our job as Christians. We are to speak the Word, live our lives as an example, lift the name of Jesus, and people will draw near to Him. In the end, if a man cares deeply for another man and they both identify as homosexual, then that does not classify as an abomination. Sex is beside the point.

Which leads to your second question:

What up Funkyman. Hope you and the fam are well. ...

2011-12-07T14:29:33.475-05:00

What up Funkyman. Hope you and the fam are well.

Serious topic, bro! And you discuss it with grace. Would it be ok to push back a bit?

Just so I understand your position, you think that marriage is a holy institution. It is two people with God; a “God-centric” union. And generally, that union is joined and defined not by sex, but by love. And if that is true, then some things that Christians have called “unholy”—namely, homosexual unions, unmarried unions—should be understood differently. In fact, they should be accepted precisely because they are founded on love, not sex. And this, in your estimation, goes in line with what the Bible teaches.

So here are my questions, and they are not meant at all to be leading, just clarifying.

1. What are the ramifications for you of how the Bible views homosexual sex? In other words, is the Bible true in your estimation on this specific point? (Not how it view homosexual marriage.)
2. Is this why you mention early on in your post “monogamous homosexual relationships”? Is your position that what is permitted is a loving, non-sexual relationship between two people of the same sex?
3. What do you think the purpose of sex is? How does the Bible (that is, God) think of sex and what is means inside of marriage?

Hope this is ok to discuss here. This is a really important topic and I don’t think we should shy away from discussing it openly, but with absolute gentleness and grace!

Peace,

Ryan P.